Why is it that getting coins seem to be getting progressively harder and harder? When I first started I remember the occasional visits to the abandoned keep and the copeham inn was enough to supply me with the recall/teleports I needed, and in the case one one particular costly prep I could still kill the mob to get my coins back. I even had money for the occasional 'gasp' gambling binge at the inn. And of course, then there was the all powerful manor treasure horde. The world was a happy place, and all was good.

Another one of my main coin collection sites was just nerfed a few days ago, but even before that I've been struggling to just keep myself afloat buying recall/teleports. I'm spending a ton of time gathering coins, and killing mobs wherever I find them that carry over 500 copper on them, but I still can't afford to do a single heal heal.

If the general direction CF is headed in is to make it so they have to spend less time doing menial tasks like practicing, why is it that gold collection seems to be heading in the other direction?

CF is not a fullblown circulating economy, coins that go into shopkeeps/healers for prep/healing doesn't come back out. Given the unidirectional flow of gold, there isn't much of a chance for inflation, so why is coin collecting getting harder and harder? I hear CF has been around for like what? 7~8 years? Was the old system so bad? I noticed the massive reductions came with Empire going in, but it's not as if Imperials ever use real currency for donations.
Yes, you can sell things, right after random reboot/crashes if you manage to get there first. It reminds me of the pictures of those bread lines in the Soviet Union.

I'm glad these changes went in at least after I've had a chance to learn a little about the game, cause if it went in any earlier I'd probably think return potions were only for leet veterans.


Please... someone tell me why.. oh why?

As is trading for cash.

A handy snippet from 'help barter' I've made use of:
However, shopkeepers have been known to barter for items they wouldn't normally purchase but at a much reduced rate.

The main reason I ever need cash is for shops. Training/pracs isn't very expensive. Bartering either a comparable item, or a better non-comparable item handled stores pretty well. I generally keep my inventory as light as possible anyway, and grabbing things and bartering them as I go helps there.

Bounty is also useful. You can set bounties with items to have attention drawn to your enemies. Now that the cash rewards are desired, it draws a few pairs of eyes.


valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Carrying items for bartering has it's problems as well. Lets bring in Fire Giant Warrior A.
Fire Giant Warrior A has two specs, both that need 2 weapons to function. (Mace,Swords) He carries 2 weapons of each, one spare weapon that exploits a racial vuln, two cureblinds for those pesky necro/a-ps that might sleep him, a potion of return, a teleport, and a limited haste potion or two. He has a sack as well in his inv. I think that lists pretty much the basics required for survival.
With his dex, where is he going to find the space to carry spare items to trade?
And having played one to 44, (It's in semi storage now cause I couldn't handle it after the changes, I was spending more coins trying to run from Marans 'while' I was trying to collect coins.) they're definately one of the most gold intensive race/class combos, having to run from hordes of Goodie XXX Marans trying to kill you all the time tends to drain your coin supply really fast. (All those heals for immolate/impales, buying return/teleports....)
Running from town to town looking to sell stuff is usually asking for it with said combo.

If trading is to be encouraged, is there any kind of a plan to implement some kind of a risk free therawide trading network? It's a given that certain race/classes are better at getting coins than others, some are better at getting armors, preps or what have you. Why not let everyone make more use of their own abilities and strengths?
Like a shopkeep at every town, where you can 'display' things for sale at your set price, and people can come and buy said item and you're credited for that amount? The mob could take like 20~50% of the trade value depending on the town. As it is now only thieves can offer this kind of trading, for obvious reasons.
Course there would have to be limits in the number and the price you can set so people don't use it to just store limited gear, (For one thing, make it so they can't get said item back any other way than by buying it back.) like having 0 weight unlimited 'deeds' that you get for each item you display that you can put in your sack. If someone steals it/kills you for it, they have rights to the item.


Any chance of something like this happening?

With his dex, where is he going to find the space to carry spare items to trade?

You're correct that this is a drawback of having a low dexterity.

In any case, it's hard not to have a few slots open, and it's not hard to traffic in nonlimited items that are worth a good amount.

If trading is to be encouraged, is there any kind of a plan to implement some kind of a risk free therawide trading network?

"Risk-free" generally translates to "not going to be implemented, ever".

There's any number of ways to make it unlikely that a buyer can hose you. If you're good-aligned, you can reasonably expect honest deals with folk of similar mindset. If you aren't, you can sometimes pay a reliable person to act as a mediator. Most (not all) cabal members can expect reasonable trade opportunities within their own ranks. Etc. If you're a badass evil guy who no one can trust... well, that's a drawback of roleplaying a badass evil guy who no one can trust.

An automated system would dumb this down, and defeat an important player skill. Also, there's a place for a character who is supposed to lie and screw you out of deals. Frankly, if that character outsmarts you, I don't feel bad.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Sure, selling things seems to be the new way. Sadly that is a race after the crashes and after that it is usually pretty filled up everywhere.

>A handy snippet from 'help barter' I've made use of:
However, shopkeepers have been known to barter for items they wouldn't normally purchase but at a much reduced rate.

Well I could not barter a 8000 copper worth item for a 1500 one, so I assume it ratio is something like 1/10. You need to find a quite hefty item to use that, and that is getting harder with most items getting nerf..ment balanced :-) so empire cannot get too easy donations.

>Why is it that getting coins seem to be getting progressively
>harder and harder?

So coins have value.

>CF is not a fullblown circulating economy, coins that go into
>shopkeeps/healers for prep/healing doesn't come back out.

They come back to mobs.

>I noticed the massive reductions came with Empire going in,
>but it's not as if Imperials ever use real currency for donations.

Imperials do donate cash because coins are worth more to the
donater than their face value. But yeah, it's no fluke that
the reintroduction of Empire led to some adjustments. We now
have a large motivated army (of multiple classes across all
levels) going out and showing where values need to be adjusted.

>Yes, you can sell things, right after random reboot/crashes
>if you manage to get there first.

8 Simple Rules...

Some shoppie somewhere is always willing to buy something.
1) Find out of the way places to sell things.
2) Sell things other than weapons and armor.

3) When you buy something from a non-food shoppie, have an
item on hand to sell to him to get your money back.

4) Shop around for preps. Knowing where it is sold cheap
can really help you with buying or when you...

5) Barter. This may not get you everything you want,
but it works just about everywhere. Find some sweet loot, but
can't really use it? Barter for useful stuff! (help barter)

6) Keep an eye on bounties. (help bounty, help carve)

7) Find preps in the wild. If it is really taking you this
long to gather coins, you may as well find a source for
preps out in the wild and kill mobs for them.

8) Keep exploring new and old areas. The money's out there.

"Imperials do donate cash because coins are worth more to the
donater than their face value. But yeah, it's no fluke that
the reintroduction of Empire led to some adjustments. We now
have a large motivated army (of multiple classes across all
levels) going out and showing where values need to be adjusted. "

I'm impressed. Didn't think of this before, but that's an excellent way to have the players do some of your policing for you. Very sneaky.... Should do more of that.

...Rome...

Gold has real value now, because when someone offers you 75 gold for something, you realise that that 75 gold is going to buy you stuff you otherwise wouldn't get.

Before, gold had no real value, because you could easily get all the gold you'd ever need.

Now, I actually feel some real benefit to collecting the bounty if I happen to kill a guy with a bounty on him.

I admit, until the last week or so I was spending a big chunk of my life gathering gold. But that's because the items I buy with the gold are very important to me. I'm actually forced to consider how valuable the things are, whereas before I'd have so much gold I could buy anything I wanted.

You mentioned the example of potions, and potions are something I will usually loot from an enemy, even if I take nothing else.

>I admit, until the last week or so I was spending a big chunk
>of my life gathering gold. But that's because the items I buy
>with the gold are very important to me. I'm actually forced
>to consider how valuable the things are, whereas before I'd
>have so much gold I could buy anything I wanted.

I take the opposite tack and just don't bother buying much in the way of preps. I'll get recall, teleport and fly potions but that's it. I think people are either exagerating the degree of difficulty in finding coins, or they've been very unlucky in their exploration. I have barely looked and have found a few places you can go at level 15 ranging between 2-7k copper per run. I strongly suspect there are places I've overlooked where you can get more.

and changes all your gold spots - which appears to have happened to me.

>>I admit, until the last week or so I was spending a big
>chunk
>>of my life gathering gold. But that's because the items I
>buy
>>with the gold are very important to me. I'm actually forced
>>to consider how valuable the things are, whereas before I'd
>>have so much gold I could buy anything I wanted.
>


>I take the opposite tack and just don't bother buying much in
>the way of preps.

Actually, I don't pay for any abs-like preps in practice. Those I pay for are stuff like translucence things, since I don't know where to find these besides a shop, wands of recall in case I am unable to flee or cast (and these are very very expensive).

> I'll get recall, teleport and fly potions
>but that's it.

This is what reminded me of what I wanted to say. What I do do now is go for the CHEAPEST option of recall, teleport, flight etc rather than the most convenient or top of the range. eg I have two kinds of flight potions. One for longterm flight (eg if expecting to fighT) and one for short term flight (eg if just wanting to get into arial city, buy some stuff, and leave again). I might go out of my way to get a less than 100% reliable source of recall that is much cheaper than potions, and use these whenever reliability is not of the essense. I use a potion reliability is essential and I can't cast, but can flee (more expensive). I use a high-priced wand if I can't flee or cast (much more expensive). So basically I try to be economical in what I use.

> I think people are either exagerating the
>degree of difficulty in finding coins, or they've been very
>unlucky in their exploration. I have barely looked and have
>found a few places you can go at level 15 ranging between 2-7k
>copper per run. I strongly suspect there are places I've
>overlooked where you can get more.

It's sad to say that i can barely scrap 1k in gold together - all ranking mobs have like 14 copper which splits 3 ways to f' all.
Getting coins has never been a priority in my life due to my avoidance of prepping but it's pretty sad when (my)rank 30 odd characters are scraping around for change.

Potions of return are a distant dream right now.

Not every character i want to play has a role that allows him to turn into the Merchant Prince of Galadon, scouring the lands for #### to sell to the nearest gypsy caravan.

People running around praying for a reboot is not a cool way to run the economy.

I don't particularly agree with the Imms reduce every good-copper-giving mob, but, they're just trying to keep it in-line with the rest of the game and their vision of it. On the whole, I agree with them... I just don't agree with the bigger picture, which I'll talk about more later.

When the system changed, the mobs didn't... totally. A whole new balancing of game economy had to be done, and they've been constantly looking at that. They see people making too much coin off of one mob, they reduce it (I refuse to use the term nerf). I agree with this and I think they've been doing a good job, even if it does suck sometimes.

The problem is that it does literally take hours to raise coin on your own, and I believe the economy has been geared toward people being able to earn enough money to get what they NEED rather than what they want. To get a return potion you'd need to do a fair bit of copper gathering, especially at the low levels, and especially as a newbie.

There's one important fact, though. Everyone is on the same playing field (with some exceptions, of course)

Everyone is having a hard time getting coins... for those that aren't, hm, make friends, ask them where they got it? Or, change your tactics... go explore. I know from first hand experience that if you go out and explore you can find good sources of not only equipment but also currency. It IS out there, you just gotta look for it. Not even hard mobs (relatively) either.

Yea, there are plenty of decent quests out there, giving nice experience, copper and whatnot... but again that takes a lot of looking, and in some cases being in the right place at the right time... which means that if a mob has been killed, or various other things, and someone is newly exploring the area... they might miss something very important, and not even realize it.

The Zepachu Solution

Menial Jobs.

Let's get some of that money back from the shopkeepers (aside from being a Thief) Have MORE shopkeepers ask people that come in if they'll deliver something, or if they'll find something and bring it to them. Make the copper meager, but still, the person might feel productive... or at least could say, "Ah, 20 more runs from Galadon to Arkham and I can get a potion of flying... if only I can avoid all the thieves along the way."

Add intricate randomness to it. For example, if someone just went from Galadon to Arkham on a delivery mission you might not want to have the Arkham shopkeeps offer another delivery mission back to Galadon. That's personal preference, though. Make a limit to how many they can accept at one time. (Suggested: One.) Even make a limit on how much they can do per NPC per day. I can see all the coding now, and although not difficult, it'll be tedious, and 99% of the work will be planning out the balancing factors.

For the most part, if it was designed right, you'd see a whole bunch of level 1-25ers running around doing these missions, until life starts getting easier around that midrange for most and they wouldn't have to do it.

Opens up some roleplay opportunity, as well. The general premise is, make NPCs interact more with the public. Some NPCs might only talk to certain aligns, races, classes... This could be yet another balancing factor, in that a certain race has a lot more opportunity to run delivery/fetch missions for NPCs, and a lot more NPCs offer to that race over another... making life easier for that particular race.

Eh, just an idea.

Zepachu

Considering the one town I used for my base refresh/heal/yellow flower/prep potions on occasion, and never went through more than a single run at a time is now worthless via coins, and even Amadus.. I now only know one mob I can goto for a few coins that isnt even worth the walk...

Maybe its an Imm humor to force exploration, but last time I checked a games fun comes from what the players want, not the wanton challenges thrown at them.

I am not attacking the admin, I understand that your job is tough love like parents/children Imm/player... But god damn.. Why do I have to look through several areas/explore for a few hours just to get enough for a few flowers.roots... Are people abusing those areas that bad?

I propose lowering prices if copper is that hard to find, or even inflating/lowering based on geological happenings...

If the empire/tribunal have power, stuff cost less... Village, Scion, Sylvan have power, economy suffers... At least that way there are times we can buy our preps without spending countless hours finding the mobs with the coppers.

Let's be realistic, unless you are a magistrate city sitting, the only way to get a decent amount of copper IMHO is either finding that SINGLE mob you can wait on repop an keep killing, or just getting lucky to nail someone who hasnt gone to the bank yet.

I like the fact money is valuable... But damn.. I honestly dont think I could gather 10,000 copper within a four hour period. I am sure there are one or two mobs out there that have a good deal on them, but there should still be places one could gather.

Perhaps something more like a public area that has gold that is often walked through so there is risk for pk, encouraging of pk even if thats the deal.. I dunno. But I have been playing a few years, and with recent tweaks, It will take me about an hour or two just to be able to buy a single invis, flower, teleport.


It goes from fun to something hard to do.

As someone under rank 20, I HAVE gathered 10k coin in under 15 minutes. Using selling items, it is very very easy. Regardless of how long the mud is up, I have yet to run into a situation where I could not sell something I wanted to unload SOMEWHERE. Galadon is not a good place to try to sell stuff. There are 10-20 other villages/cities out there where you can sell things. Some of them have several shops each.

Perhaps some bard should put together a list of all the towns in Thera and what shops they have, then send the note out to everyone.

...Rome...