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Forum Name "What Does RL Stand For?"
Topic subjectRE: This essey pretty much sums up my current world vie...
Topic URLhttps://forums.carrionfields.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=43&topic_id=151&mesg_id=197
197, RE: This essey pretty much sums up my current world vie...
Posted by nepenthe on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
I have to admit this is the most ignorant political thing I've read recently. No offense to Odrirg, but it is.

A few comments:

>We cannot fault
>either the Republicans or Democrats as there were no
>provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate
>predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter.

From the perspective of some Americans this may be true. From the perspective of most people in the Middle East it really isn't, and not without some justification. It's not like America hasn't been involved in military actions in the Middle East during that time that have killed people, including civilians. It's not like weapons provided by Americans haven't done the same.

Now, maybe we did the things we did for reasons that seemed good to us, either just at the time or still. I'll buy that. But, you have to be pretty willfully blind to U.S. history to think that no one in the Middle East could have any rational justification for hating America. That's not to say that terrorist actions are justified, but there are a lot of explanations for the motives that, while not making these actions right, are a lot less silly.

>Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt
>that the predominately Christian population of Germany was
>peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who
>was also Christian), that made no difference. You either went
>along with the administration or you were eliminated. There
>were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for
>political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests). (see
>>http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm )

See this, or look up Godwin\'s Law via the source of your choice.

>No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of
>our Political Correctness, and all of our civil rights during
>this conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of
>those words apply to war. Get them out of your head.

You can't protect America by subverting civil rights or the Constitution. You can theoretically protect a piece of land and the people who live in it by doing so, but that place isn't America anymore.

>And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world
>that allow freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of
>religion, freedom of the press, equal rights for anyone -- let
>alone everyone, equal status or any status for women, or that
>have been productive in one single way that contributes to the
>good of the world.

Yet this essay urges that we transform America into a country that doesn't have these freedoms.

>Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by
>some external military force. Instead, they give their
>freedoms away, politically correct piece by politically
>correct piece.

Or by a government that "just wants to protect" them?

A huge part of what makes America great is its freedom. This essay talks about how peaceful Muslims can't disagree with angry Muslims without being silenced or killed, but then in the next breath urges Americans who disagree with the actions of their government to be silent. That is letting the terrorists win -- letting them take away America's greatness and its culture.

People who disagree with you don't hate America. They don't "want the terrorists to win" -- they just have a different vision of what America is and what's to really be valued about it than you do.